- Biscuits vs pocket screws Not sure on the exact screws you have but the differences between the cabinet screws and pocket screws I buy are the cab screws use a torx driver and have a wider diameter head. All of my face frames are assembled with pocket screws BUT attached to the cabinetry with biscuits. If you want fast but half-decent alignment on panel glue-ups, it’ll do the job, but for everything else, I would favour most of the other options, as you’ll see in a minute. Yes dowels provide superior structural strength including shear strength, which no screw is meant to bear. I was actually going to buy the woodcraft slot cutter but I was told that the Kreg pocket screw kit would be a lot easier and better. They also have zero-profile, so you can wipe both sides of the joint easy before the glue sets, which'll help with yr cleanup/finishing. if you used biscuits for the same application you would have to clamp it. Pocket screws will function as clamps while the glue dries, but will align better and be quicker and easier than clamps. Share: The above comment isn’t wrong but it also doesn’t answer your question about what’s better for a beginner. Hi all It sounds like I'll be building a sewing room full of cabinets this winter, proabably in birch or similar light wood. A pocket screw is a great way to attach a thin top rail to a leg Please wait while your request is being verified biscuits give you more room to manouvre than dowels so that is a plus. I let the customer decide. With a simple jig, making a pocket The biscuits register the joints flush and don't allow the angle of the pocket hole pull the joint out of plane when the screw is driven and if you glue the joint the pocket hole acts as a clamp for the biscuit. I have seen post that a lot of people use pocket hole jigs instead of biscuits. Nuts, Bolts & Washers. To me, pocket screws signify mass-produced, large volume, commodity factory furniture. drilling two pocket holes per joint or slotting two biscuits per side is about as even as it gets but with clamps its only one power tool to Is a biscuit joint stronger than a pocket screw joint? Historically, choosing between either two of these joints is a grey area. I removed the reference to the brand from her question below because I want the focus of this post to compare pocket hole joinery vs biscuit joinery rather than one brand vs See more Biscuits add nothing to the strength of a joint. We can go old school and keep metals out of the joints – mortise and tenon, dowels, biscuits; or, we can use more modern methods and use metals – nails, screws, pocket hole joinery. The pitch is the same or at least very close on I am just a weekend worrier and stuck between buying a 5/32" slot cutter for my router table to cut biscuits slots or purchasing a pocket screw kit. Biscuits and dowels are kinda similar, and I'd go Biscuits - strong joint with some "shimmy fit" capability. (depends on many variables) When comparing pocket screws to dominos the domino joint is stronger by far. Don't have a Domino, so I'll answer between biscuits and dowels. I have had great success with all these methods: mortise and tenon; biscuits; pocket screws; butt joints and If you're talking about the corners of the cabinet box, glue works just fine. Kathy included a brand of biscuit joiner in her message to me. Pocket holes don't need glue. A biscuit joiner cuts slots for biscuits, which are then glued in place. Effective dust collection. And that’s why the comparison between dowels vs pocket screws is i I've seen many flat panels aligned (almost) using biscuits, however a wide belt sander was available to correct any misalignment. But the final verdict here is that neither biscuit joint nor pocket screw joints possess extreme I second lew's comment with an additional choice. I don't consider pocket screws as structural joinery, but more like clamps. Pocket hole screws are typically larger and longer than standard wood screws, providing more holding power. I prefer mortise and tenon, for strength. I use pocket screws a lot, and often, together with glue biscuits. But it is the glue that really holds the box together. Watch to find out!Subscribe to my Channel:https: Pocket holes are also more forgiving. I like biscuits to make web frames for dressers and sideboards. Unfortunately there was a bit if a twist in one of the rails so the frame was a tad twisted. Pros. I tried breaking the frame . Case corners came out very nicely that way. Biscuits are OK for alignment of surfaces parallel to the surface of the biscuit but poor for alignment perpendicular to the biscuit surface. If you do use pocket screws, make the pocket in the long grain so that the screw threads can grab better in the crossgrain of the mating piece. While debatable, many cabinetmakers will always opt for a biscuit as it helps provide a strong glue joint. So biscuit, I place thee here in the cost, time, strength triangle, but honestly, I can’t recommend the biscuit joiner over pocket screws for most applications. Biscuits, on the other hand, are generally better for aligning pieces Pocket screws are fasteners and don't belong to the same category. Marc, I’m with you on this one. most are 1200 high by 600 wide in 18mm normal mdf and seem ok still. Pocket holes will give structural value, and can keep things aligned if clamped up well when screwing. However, biscuit joiners are easy, simple, and quick to use, and the joints are not difficult in the least. A pocket hole jig allows for fast assembly, especially useful for face frames and drawer boxes. Positive alignment in one direction. Even legs/aprons of tables that are not heavy use (ie, end-table ok, child's study table, maybe not). Dowels would do the same job but hard to align if Putting in plugs to cover up the pocket hole looks nicer than no plugs. Dowels or Pocket Screws in Hardwood. Question 1: From Dan: I recently built a pair of desks featured in issue #270. Pocket screws are essentially self-clamping after glue-up, too. I'm thinking of switching to v-nails and Roughly 4x2" and not much machined away. Try a little destructive testing. If the joint doesn't require extra strength a biscuit jointer is the way to go but if you need to re-enforce the joint the dowel is a better choice but can be a pain. That's it. Not saying Pocket Screws are bad, they just come in last In a woodworking project, a DIYer knows the range of capacity of every tool. Industrial quality machine costs Pocket Screws add some strength, but serve more to hold the joint in-place while the glue dries. loose tenon. But pocket screws are also fast, easy, and self-clamping. Which one is stronger. Threaded Inserts. Some of that may look quite nice, but I wouldn’t use pocket screws on anything I would want to In terms of the performance of biscuit joining versus pocket screws, here's my take on it. If your thing is authentic reproductions of a historic style, be true to the joinery that was used during that period. Screw Kits & Accessories. pocket hole screw. I'm making two wardrobes with internal drawers out of 18mm Egger laminated melamine faced chipboard. They are a good way to align pieces for gluing. I do have the kreg K4 jig. If the holes can be hidden, I'd use glue and pocket screws. They are the perfect tool for building face frames, The screw enters the joining piece at an angle, creating a mechanical hold similar to a dowel or biscuit joint. This flush frame to 3/4" plywood side system lends itself very well to biscuits. My face frames are attached to my boxes using biscuits and glue. Large screw size. so I expected the "butt joint" part of the joint to fail before the pocket hole screws reached their maximum force. I did that with two biscuits, and two 4" screws on each corner. pocket screws save a lot of time, and if you make a mistake, just take it apart. pocket hole screws), the cost is similar. Biscuit joints use small, football-shaped pieces of compressed wood (biscuits) to join two pieces of wood. Biscuits (for strength) teamed up with pocket screws (clamping action) might work, but the clamping action of pocket screws will not be as strong as drawbolts. If you need to undo the joint and start over, you can do that with pocket holes, but not with a glued biscuit. Since I don't have tools for either, I was hoping for some advice on biscuit vs pocket screw construction. If you use biscuits your joints are hidden, therefore more versatile. EXPAND THIS SECTION FOR MORE RESOURCES RELATED TO Biscuits also are a great way to align drawer dividers on dressers with two rows of drawers. I don’t own a domino, I opted for a hollow chisel mortiser, and I thought it would be silly to use a hollow chisel mortise. Screw Caps & Covers. No need to spend time and space clamping. Any suggestions? Pocket Holes Vs Biscuits . In this video I put the Festool Domino up against the Kreg Pocket Hole Jig. However, as someone who has built over 100 residential doors, I'll tell you that pocket screws, even with biscuits added, will not hold up. When you compare the fasteners themselves (biscuits vs. KD fittings are available in this format. I've torn apart factory cabinets made with pre-glued dowels (and I suspect large boring machinery) with very little effort. Building a bookcase from a single sheet of 3/4 ply. They are definitely not the same thing. If you don't do a ton of pocket screws,I would just get a hand held Kreg jig,and then get a Domino cutter. Hey /Woodworking! I've been looking into it and I'm curious as to everyones opinions on the pros and cons of either technique. Do have a Kreg kit. Pocket holes are much stronger in my opinion. Dominos Vs. Re: Biscuits or pocket screws in 1x4 casing miters? i love pocket screws for face frames but not for mitered casings. A specialized tool called a biscuit joiner cuts matching slots in both pieces of wood, and the biscuit is There is the need for a biscuit joiner, though, an extra power tool in your shop. T-Nuts. Dowels and pocket screws are two types of tools for woodworking jobs that require special learning to make them function properly. biscuit joint vary significantly in their design and use: Strength of joint. Be sure and use hide glue as well! I use pocket screws,domino's and very rarely biscuits,no dowels. Re: Pocket screws vs. mdbuntyn. It's easier to screw flush corner carcase joints by putting them through the face. Pocket screws in my experience are great to hold pieces together end grain to long grain and other jointery. As for vs biscuits, it can make a structural joint, where as biscuits are only for alignment, they dont add strength. (depends on many variables) You should used biscuits rather than pocket screws. While close in strength, a loose tenon offers a design that is easier to glue and can be customized for depth and width. The clamps just stay on long enough to get the screws in. i find the process to be quicker and with more efficiency. when i started i had no clamps, so used spax screws between the biscuits and so far none of the heavily overloaded mdf bookshelves have failed. Decorative & Brass Screws. (depends on many variables) I have been using pocket screws to join, and they work well. The back is rabbeted in with the 3/4 and the top, middle shelf and bottom will be attached with the biscut / Kreg joint. Jan 23, 2025. Unlike pocket screws, dowels provide positive alignment of parts. Fasteners. What is the best method between dowels or biscuit joints or even hidden pocket screws? I haven't got the festool domino or lamello zeta so these joinery methods aren't feasible. Pocket holes are also more forgiving. But if you need to tighten the screws at a later time, the plug are in the way of screws. Dowels are more robust as they form a deeper connection between wood pieces; Speed of use. Aside from clamping time, are biscuits easier align because of the built-in slop? Do Pocket screws and glue are quite strong and simple butt joints are far easier to size and cut than figuring the extra material to fit into the dados/grooves, etc. ashley_phil; Jan 21, 2025; General Woodworking; Replies 16 Views 713. Esthetics wise it just doesn't feel right to me. Pocket screws are just another technique that helps us create strong, durable joints. I build custom cabinets,so I mostly use pocket screws,from a Ritter machine. Cons. I used a IOW, biscuits are good for (say) face-frames and such, while pockets screws could work there, and for other structural strengths too, say the whole cabinet. If something is meant to be disassembled, then screws can be removed & replaced easily without any damage. All I can say is I wouldn't trade mine for a festool. Now for a third choice for non-stressed joints I found the pocket hole screws are quick and easy to use. Screws -- either pocket screws or screws straight through from the outside -- can stand in for pipe clamps during glue-up. co/collections/plansUS & CANADIAN Pocket screw joinery does not require such measurement precision for a good alignment result, and like biscuit joinery, it is also invisible in the finished joint. Again, biscuits may help in alignment during the glue-up. - biscuits - domino - pocket-hole screw (sorry Mathais) - some sort of routed mortis and tenon - beadlock? (haven't checked this out yet) - I suppose even a blind dovetail This is a type of project coming up soon in my own shop, and will have to make a choice soon. The reason is that confirmats are essentially a threaded dowel, whereas assembly screws are thin and allow for more joint movement. Knock-Down Hardware. Biscuits also are a great way to align drawer dividers on dressers with two rows of drawers. Dealer told me the pocket joint was just as strong as the biscut joint. Pocket Screws And Dowels: Which Provides A Stronger Joint? Woodworking joints are essential in creating strong and durable furniture pieces. Biscuit vs. Clamping force. co/blogs/shop-talk/joinery-systemsBUILD PLANS FOR SALE:https://scottwalsh. For me, I Pocket screws joinery also seems to be a method of choice when, for design purposes, gaps between edge-joined boards are allowed, like when joining rough boards with limited contact at the edges. table leg pocket screws Morning JP Strength wize I suppose pocket screws would work, esp. I use biscuits in this situation, not for strength, but because wood and mdf likes to move when glued, even when clamped. While sometimes interchangeable, a dowel vs. Easy to offset parts. Each method has its own advantages and is suitable for different I end cabinets I use biscuits for construction. I often use both, biscuits for alignment and a long lasting glued joint and kreg screws between the biscuits instead of clamps. No need for anyone to One key difference between the two methods is that pocket screws are generally faster to use, as they require less setup time and can be used on a wider range of joint types. Dowel vs. This is the strongest combination possible. Pocket screws show little strength and pull out very easily. The face frames are assembled with pocket screws and glue. The strength of the pieces we build comes from the joinery, and when it comes to joinery, we have choices. The minimum you need to get started is a face clamp, pocket hole kit, and self-tapping pocket hole screws. I have seen pocket screws used with cope and stick joinery on raised panel waiscotting. As you I use mostly mortise and tenon construction, but every project has a few biscuits and a well placed pocket screw or two. Nobody but another woodwooworker is probably going to notice. A pocket screw is a great way to attach a thin top rail to a leg (for instance the rail Biscuits will keep things aligned with no real structural value. Unlike glue, pocket screws may prevent wood movement along the screw lengths, which is probably at least 1" on both sides of the joining line. (depends on many variables) Which should I buy? I was looking at getting a biscuit joiner. Fast. Biscuit Joinery: Biscuits can align and strengthen edge-to-edge or T-joints quickly. Pocket holes are not idiot proof, because you still have to clamp the boards to end up with a flush fit. When it comes to choosing the right joinery technique, there are several options available, including dominos, pocket screws, and dowels. with modern glues. I tell them the costs and the pros and cons of each method. Shop All. The biscuits align the piece so the edge is clean. Use them together with joinery and glue when strength is important. You can sand it flush unless it is ply, which would sand thru the veneer. Requires clamping. You can use a variety of joinery options for making face frames, including dowels, mortise-and-tenons or even small biscuits, but none of these alternatives are as fast as pocket screws. Expect to pay a minimum of $150 for a quality, name-brand biscuit joiner; a pocket hole kit might run you $60. If driving the screws pulls the joint flush and tight until the glue sets it will work. (with care taken to While you can hide or plug the screw holes with a pocket hole jig, there are no screws involved when using a biscuit joiner. As I posted in another thread on the subject, biscuits prevent the joint from slipping when you use pocket screws. And as far as face frames, pocket screws are faster, cheaper and just as accurate as a domino. While the choice has a lot to do with money, the specific need of the job will determine which type of joint to use. Pocket holes require less expensive tools. Also, unlike pocket screws, both sides of the joint look the same, Biscuits come in different sizes to accommodate various part dimensions. Pocket Screws are best used when there is compression forces along the joint, AN IMPORTANT TUTORIAL: When you should/should not use biscuits, dowels or pocket screw joinery. I'd vote #1= mortise and tenon, #2= Domino, and #3- Pocket Screws. I register the Lamello base off the faces of the cabinet that will align with the flush face of the face frame. Don't have a biscut joiner. This tool cuts a slot in the mating pieces, into which a biscuit is inserted with wood glue and the biscuit absorbs the glue and expands, effectively locking the two pieces together. There's a lot of support for the pocket screw method in this thread but one thing the plate joiner can do which the screw jig can't is look good on both sides of the joint. If pocket holes don’t fit your needs, the long grain bond can be achieved through a The reason I didn't expect glue to make much difference is that screw joints, including pocket hole joints, always yield a bit before reaching maximum strength, whereas glue joints do not yield, but pop open suddenly. I need to hide the joinery so I cannot use screws. 3. A strength test comparison of the following joints: (1) pocket hole, (2) biscuit, (3) mortise & tenon, (4) domino and (5) multiple dowel. Solid wood face frame over the front. Not super fast but nice. “I use dowels, mortise-and-tenon joints, biscuits and pocket screws. Opinions vary on the various levels of strength each method of joinery provides. In this video, I discuss why I prefer using biscuits over pocket hole screws for making panels. The K5 or the Foreman jig are nicer. You can use air nails or crown Dowels or biscuits or Dominoes will give better registration than confirmats, because they don't have threads. The setup for pocket screws is cheaper than the set up for biscuits. Domino's are alot more versatile than biscuits,you can go from a tiny Lots of people love pocket screws, personally I consider them to always be a pretty garbage connection unless going from and into pretty thick material. Build your cabs, do the test assembly on your shop floor, have your face frame built to the intended size in a single peice or in sections as long as you can handle (like 3 to 4 cab lengths) clamp your frame on and mark out the biscuits. I find I only have to clamp for 15 minutes and they can come out of the clamps and left sitting to cure more. Before I make any decisions I have to get the consensus from the experts at SMC. You hit a point where the material gets thick enough and can support more a small bolt and less a screw, where dowels or biscuits do become less strong than pocket screws. Biscuits "a good screw is about equal to a dowel" Depends on the dowel and how it was installed. Is this the route I should be looking at? Pocket screws are a popular method because you are fastening long-grain to long-grain. Both, in my opinion, are used primarily for alignment, especially when gluing long boards edge-to-edge. Confirmats are an AWI premium grade fastener, assembly screws are not. I believe that pocket hole jigs and screws have their place For long joints were clamping is difficult in the middle portion I have used a few biscuits(3-4 starting at 36" from each end for an 8ft. I could live without the Domino's,but it is nice having it. And this creates a need for pocket hole screws that can be used indoors and out: Zinc Coated – for traditional indoor use in dried woods; These machines are expensive. Pocket screws do the work to hold things together, especially for 90degree joints that make for poor glue strength. Easy to use. This tool is one of my favorites and makes short work of joining two pieces of wood in a permanent and extremely strong bond. Both have their use cases, but for this application don’t let the “pocket screws suck because people who aren’t as good at woodworking as me use them” crowd talk you out of using a perfectly effective, cheap method. for that i love me some clams, er, i mean clam clamps. Before I share Kathy’s question with you I want to let you know something. Kreg pocket joinery will leave the oval hole on one side and you have to clamp to keep the angled screws from moving the joint a 1/16 or so. Dado joints also require accurate measurements but are often used on Pocket holes are also more forgiving. I used to use biscuits for alignment, clamp up for assembly and complete the pilot holes for the screws. I built them mostly the way Michael Robbins did, however instead of using a domino to construct the top I used pocket screws. Biscuit Joints. Biscuits, meanwhile, are fast and easier to use for large panels; Machines to cut joints. It's less visible from the front, making it suitable for visible joinery. A big part of that is the spacing is set up on the European cabinet standard, which when making cabinets with my CNC machine allows for easy assembly of the project, and dowels are much cheaper than dominoes. But, with savings versus biscuit joinery on glue and Which is better, a quick and easy a biscuit joint, Pocket Hole Screws. joint) to help with the leveling of the face material and then place pocket screws along the lenght of the joint. You can't do that with nails. Pocket hole joinery is a quick way to do production cabinetry. The jigs that are out there are hard to mess up. FULL ARTICLE:https://scottwalsh. Your door will fail, likely at the hinge stile joints. Pocket hole jigs are great for joinery that is not structural in nature and only require minimal holding force like face frames or cabinet Pocket scews go in from behind at an angle drawing the frame tight to the box. When you tighten a pocket screw, it tends to pull the boards slightly out of alignment unless you first have the boards well clamped, and if you already have them clamped, why bother with the pocket hole screws? You could use biscuits or dowels (or dominos) to aid in the alignment, but none of those will replace clamping. Usually, only time I use a brad nailer is if I'm adding on some sort of blocking or assembling cabinet boxes. The biscuits are made of either birch or compressed wood A closer analogy here might be mortise and tenon joints compared to Domino or Pocket Screws. Requires accurate biscuit jointer to do properly. You need to use M&T. iefv tradx wagyf jvji bncpv xnl qkgujru ooo ppexcc zrvpwq egog tnbdfv iomiajq hfrwjz ybk